Throughout time the Lord has caused Gospel principles to be discontinued when the general body of the Church rejects these teachings. A similar fate may soon occur to the principles of agency and freedom…
Latter-day Saints, in general, appear to be rejecting the principles of agency and freedom. This rejection may slowly be causing a change in the official position of the church – similar to what happened during the time of Samuel in ancient Israel. If this change continues to the point where the Church officially rejects the principles of liberty, those who continue to defend these principles could be at risk of a similar fate as those who continued to defend other principles that are no longer the official position of the Church – complete apostasy and excommunication. While there is still time, we, as LDS liberty-lovers, must continue to labor in advancing the cause of liberty so this day of apostasy never is realized.
Over the years I have heard many times the murmuring comments, “Why don’t the Brethren speak as much about the Constitution as they used to?”, “Why aren’t the Brethren as bold as they once were on the principles of freedom?” or some variety of the same intent. I have always felt that this was basically just whining from people that thought they could deliver the message better than the servant of the Lord and basically nonsense.
This complaint is not new, has been around for at least 43 years, and our Church leaders have dismissed it as a lie from Satan.
“‘We really haven’t received much instruction about freedom,’ the devil says. This is a lie, for we have been warned time and again…” Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference April 1965
We continue to this day to be warned regarding our duty to preserve freedom and the US Constitution. In February of 2006, an Ensign article written by a General Authority of the Church taught us “What a sacred privilege and responsibility is ours to participate with other like-minded people to ensure that basic freedoms are preserved wherever we reside.” Shirley D. Christensen, “‘I, the Lord God, Make You Free’,” Ensign, Feb 2006
The admonition to defend freedom did not stop there as we can see from this video produced in December of 2007 called, “Why is it important for Church members to participate in the political process?” In the video, Elder Ballard says, “The very fundamental principle of freedom is absolutely essential for the Gospel of Jesus Christ to prosper… (T)hat principle of sustaining the Constitution… is a very, very important principle and has been taught since the very beginning in the history of our Church.”
And finally this year (2008), in the October General Conference, President Boyd K Packer teaches us the vital lesson that the Lord “established the Constitution of this land”.
That is three years, three consecutive years of Apostles and General Authorities of the Church speaking boldly regarding the Heavenly nature of the Constitution and our duty to it! President Benson is right; it is a lie from Lucifer himself to say that we have not received much instruction about freedom.
That being said, this author believes if the Elders of Israel do not repent and act now, teaching those statements of the General Authorities above in the future will be tantamount to apostasy. Sound crazy? Let me explain.
Read the rest of this article at The Mormon Chronicle http://www.mormonchronicle.com/the-coming-apostasy-of-latter-day-conservatives/
This presupposes that the leaders of the church are the whipping boys of the church. I do not believe that. The Lord will withdraw them from our midst when we “stone them,” but they will never even feign to support satan, his policies etc… What they say is not deception, but the word of the Lord to us.
Do you believe that blacks as the seed of cain remain unfit for the priesthood? Do you believe that we were just given what we asked for under the influence of the “civil rights” movement?
A perfect man walked a straight and narrow path and decided that it would be better to drive it. Did his car have a steering wheel? It did, but the question I leave to you is why?
It doesn’t presuppose anything. Everything is based on a foundation laid-out and built upon throughout the article.
You made statements without facts or history to back them being presuppositions in and of themselves.
The Lord throughout history has said yes to wicked things after warning us of the consequences and we chose to reject Him. The article laid out at least two examples.
Another example of the Samuel principle would be the food storage commandments. My mother told me they used to ask us to get a seven year supply (in harmony with scripture). Then for a long time it was a one year supply. Now the church website has no mention of a year supply and instead asks us to get as much as we can and to have a 72-hour kit. So we went from 7 years to 72 hours. What’s next? A more localized version of the Samuel principle would be when Joseph Smith asked repeatedly to give away part of the Book of Mormon. The Father told him no several times, then said yes. After that part of the manuscript was lost Joseph repented even though he had been given permission from God. Why did he repent? What will we and our leaders be repenting of in the future?
By Jeremy Parker on Nov 11, 2009 | Reply
Do you believe that blacks as the seed of cain remain unfit for the priesthood? Do you believe that we were just given what we asked for under the influence of the “civil rights” movement?
Answer: NO… NO…
Why did the Lord decide only the Levites of Israel could have the priesthood in ancient Israel? Why wouldn’t the Lord listen to his prophet (Spencer W. Kimball) who pled with the Lord concerning the priesthood (especially if the people were ready)? There were some “blacks” with the Priesthood in early church history 1800′s but it was not common practice perhaps that should say more about our society around us rather than the church. The Nephites became so wicked that the Lord shut Mormon’s mouth (from preaching) because people were not ready. The children of Israel under Moses wondered the wilderness and never entered the promise land because the were not ready. I am a descendant of the Lamanites whose people had dwindled in unbelief from time to time because they were not ready to receive the truth.
A perfect man walked a straight and narrow path and decided that it would be better to drive it. Did his car have a steering wheel? It did, but the question I leave to you is why?
Answer:To go obstacles on the path and give him freedom of choice to turn of the path if he so chose otherwise there would be no free agency.
? Not sure what you are getting at there. I also think you have a little bit of history mixed up. History is what happened, not what we say happened to make it seem like we are so much more sophisticated today. Sure, somethings, wont say which here, are changed because we are worthy of more, but one has to admit that there is precedence for things being changed because we demanded our King. The key is in figuring out which is which.
I believe that there are many thoughtful and sane members who are concerned at what appears to be the lack of a “clarion call” from cour Church leaders regarding the defense of our freedoms and liberties as Americans.
Yes, if you listen very, very closely (and don’t blink) you can catch a sentence here, or a phrase there in a conference talk on the subject of the need to work diligently to protect our liberty . But, as the Scriptures say “who will answer the call of an uncertain trump”?
We are all smart enough to tell what the “theme” of a conference is, and generally discern what is foremost on the minds of the 1st Presidency and the Q12. I believe there are also many who can recall the extended and detailed instruction and pronouncements of the likes of President Benson, President Kimball, and President Hunter in particular, which are in no way visible today in the utterances we diligently search.
Yes, ours is a global church with a majority of members outside the USA and outside of span of our form of governemt. Yes, there are strict tax and other legal liabilities that the Church must carefully navigate whenever it steps beyond pure religious content. But need to defend our liberty and freedoms surely warrants a clear trumpet call.
There is so much that can be done within the Church while still clearly avoiding any “red or blue” discussions–which we must carefully avoid. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Church leaders, including Stake Presidents and Bishops, challenged their members to get and read the founding documents or our Country, along with other key documents like the writings of Washington, Jefferson, and Payne…and then re-read Mosiah and Alma? Wouldn’t it be wonderful if there were a Stake specialist called to help find and publish a non-partisan local guide to “getting involved in your local community decision making and leadership selections”?
The history of the BOM revolves around Prophets and Generals, eternal principles and temporal leadership and governance. We have the Prophets. They cannot be the Generals, as the role of the Church must be to protect and exercise sacred “keys” and programs. It is our role is to defend our freedoms as well as the Church. But, wouldn’t it be wonderful to hear this from the lips of those we follow; to listen in to their prayers as they pray for what they wish we would stand forth and do in these times? If not now, when?
I believe the clarion call had already happened and the Saints did not take heed. Many Saints accepted federal welfare during a time when the First President, even the prophet, warned them against it and against socialism, and set up the Church’s welfare system. Today, so many people are so indoctrinated that the prophet’s warning of secret combinations inspired many Saints to vote for the very people committing those secret combinations, not knowing any better.
Now is the time for us to not be slothful servants, needing to be instructed in all things. Once our eyes are open and we see the danger, it is up to us to warn our neighbor.
In July of 2009, the Ensign had an insert which said one of the ways to be self reliant was to take government welfare. Not only is this irony in the extreme, but is yet another example of the point of this article.
It is possible for a latter-day saint to responsibly use the government safety net, but the obligation to become self-reliant is just as applicable as those whose circumstances force them to use the Church’s welfare system. Those who are in that position must not succumb to remain dependent on either system.
There is another apostasy that may take place, however. It is related to the conditions of which the author speaks here. 2 Nephi 30:10 speaks of a “great division” that will take place. The wicked will be destroyed by it and the Lord will spare his people. My own opinion is that the split will occur over tithe-paying, personal debt, and having a supply of food, etc. Those are the minimum qualifications, so to speak, to get on the “ark” in the last days. Lorenzo Snow taught that the United Order is that ark for us.
The foolish “virgins” who don’t prepare, who don’t pay tithing, who have tons of debt from an extravagant lifestyle, and who don’t have any food, won’t be able to enter the ark when the time comes. This will result in a split in the Church. There will be LDS folks who believe, but didn’t obey and there will be those who believed and did obey. The ones who didn’t obey won’t be able to practice consecration, because you can’t consecrate what you don’t have or what you don’t own outright.
I anticipate these things will occur when the US and the world economy collapses in the future. Those who can’t enter into a united order will have to rely on the state, which will take over every aspect of their lives.
Yes, but how do you keep all the grasshoppers out of your food storage, when winter arrives? Are you going to shoot your brothers and sisters because they were negligent in their preparations?
President Thomas Monson in his first talk to the priesthood as Prophet told us that “The stability of the nations is being ruined by political machinations. Tyrants and despots are everywhere leaving the people downtrodden, oppressed, without opportunity and with a feeling of failure.” (Paraphrase) He then told the priesthood it was their responsibility to fix it. (April 2008)
His next talk given to the priesthood he quoted Ezekiel saying; “I will give you a new spirit and a new heart and this new spirit and new heart will cause you to live the statutes and judgments.”
He continued; How do we receive this great blessing, how do we receive this great promise, is there a procedure to follow? This applies to the deacon as well as the high priest, Learn what you must learn, do what you must do, and be what you must be.” (paraphrase)
What must we learn? The statues and judgments of course. What are the statues and judgments? The Statues and judgments of the Law of Moses, the foundation of the U.S. Constitution. What must we do? Step forward and save the constitution. What must we be? The kind of people that can live the statutes and judgments I.E. Constitutional law. (Oct 2008)
Bishop Burton mentions twice in his comments here about the Evils of the dole and the belief of entitlement.
He says that the bishops are to help people not rely on the dole. While using local community programs may be needed, he does not say that the dole is a way to live, but that it is evil. Just thought I would point it out.
http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,8885-1-4981-1,00.html
Yes, Bill it would be wonderful if Church leaders, including Stake Presidents and Bishops, challenged their members to get and read the founding documents or our Country, along with other key documents like the writings of Washington, Jefferson, and Payne…and then re-read Mosiah and Alma. It would be lovely if there were a Stake specialist called to help find and publish a non-partisan local guide to “getting involved in your local community decision making and leadership selections” My efforts to promote such in our ward have fallen flat. When I suggested such to our bishop, who, BTW, well understands the dangers to our remaining freedoms (his father is JBS) he told me there are much bigger problems to deal with. I believe our stake presidency and most if not all of the high council would consider attention given to constitutional principles and freedom to be an undesirable distraction from the current goals of increasing temple readiness, temple attendance, home/visiting teaching, family solidarity, etc.
Check out the podcast on this topic http://ldsliberty.org/?p=261
OH what a horrible article! Argh! If this was true, then all those with food storage would be excommunicated for “looking beyond the mark” and doing more than everyone else in the church! There are so many things wrong with this, I can’t even begin! Also, if this logic is correct, then obviously, when Christ died, and the church became hellenized, the apostles were OBVIOUSLY the ones who apostatized because they did not follow the MAINSTREAM of the church!
The quote is “follow the prophet and THE MAJORITY OF THE BRETHREN”! Not the mainstream of the church!
Jake
Regarding: Social Security which was voted as a “Targeted Retirement” funded for and by those “Workers” who contributed to it… Medicare was added many years latter as part of the same… Over time it became just another General Tax to those who contributed to it…
Obviously it is and has been abused…
However, over the last 150 Quarters I have contributed about $2,000,000 in to-days $$$… .. If i received $40,000/year it would take 50 years to break even, (age 115)…
The 16,00 I receive is not a dole…. It is grand theft by the Government…
Bryan, In your comment you stated the following.
“In July of 2009, the Ensign had an insert which said one of the ways to be self reliant was to take government welfare. Not only is this irony in the extreme, but is yet another example of the point of this article.”
Could you please show me where in the July 2009 Ensign it said this. I found a section about the welfare training of the church, but nowhere did it mention that members should take government welfare to help them be self reliant. I went through the whole issue twice and that section three times and couldn’t find it. It might be there, but before I trust what you said, please show me exactly where it said that.
If you are going to make comments like this, please provide the exact reference. Too many rumors and false doctrine has been spread by people sharing things they thought they heard without giving direct sources.
Good point James It was an insert not on the online version. Here is the pdf of the insert
https://www.ldsjobs.org/Static%20Files/ERS/Surviving_Unempl_PD50017002_000_-LTR.pdf
Also, Keith, President Benson said not to justify receiving govt gratuities by saying you are a contributing tax payer. http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6162&x=43&y=2
Just a quick comment about that flier. I am not here to “defend” it and what it says, just an observation as our ward employment specialist. This flier is part of the materials you can get online at ldsjobs.org as well as in print at the various employment resource centers. Again, I’m not defending what it says, but it should be noted that ldsjobs.org as well as our employment resource centers are OPEN TO ALL. I personally have helped several non-members setup accounts and make appointments for help at one of the ERC’s. It “could be” that the reference to “gov’t’ programs” is there because this help is available to all folks not just church members. I’m guessing of course, but I just want people to give that a shred of consideration given the context where this document is normally downloaded/seen.
I share the author’s concerns and have a few thoughts of my own to add to this discussion.
First I was disappointed some months ago when I overheard a pair of conversations at work where one coworker was was recommending to another that the second should get on WIC as the first had done. Then a few days/weeks later the second thanked the first for the recommendation indicating his family was now using the program and thought it was great.
These are both Melchizedek priesthood holders with families comparable in composition to mine and the three of us all make the same money. I thought to my self these guys don’t realize it but in a way they are taking that food off of MY table.
Then a summer or 2 back some of the LDS families in the neighborhood (including a counselor in the bishopric who has since been called as Bishop) were sending their kids to a local school for free lunches (I guess they just feed anybody of school age who shows up) and our kids had been invited to go along. my wife and I discussed it and decided that we didn’t want our kids going based on our feelings about the appropriateness of such a program even existing in the first place. (Full disclosure: my kids are home schooled).
Now at the same time when on occasions my tax refund has exceeded the amount that was withheld from my wages I have had no trouble cashing the check. Also I was able to buy a “modest home” (as the brethren suggest) several years earlier than my projections due to the $8000 first time home buyer tax credit.
Now with that said how many of us here would feel it appropriate or beneficial to the missions of the church if the brethren intimated that using government assistance could affect a persons membership in the church? Or their worthiness to attend the temple?
This is a touchy subject, and I don’t have answers.
To end I would like to point out the words of the Lord in D&C 58:26–29 ( which i summarize in my own words as “on some days ‘follow the prophet’ just isn’t good enough.”)
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.
29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.
I think being active in support of the constitution easily falls into this category. Liberating mankind from political tyranny is not one of the missions of the church (remember the Jews were looking for a political savior as they rejected Christ)… but maintaining liberty is certainly worthwhile and those who pursue it will in no wise lose their reward.
sorry if my ending seems OT… But I’d hate for any one to confuse “being anxiously engaged in a good cause” with “looking beyond the mark”.
I have seen this exact thing in my ward. I have had debates with other elder’s in my quorum regarding the socilaization of our country, and people’s increased reliance on government handouts, and how it decreases personal liberty, and that we have been counceled against it, and even quoted Ezra Taft Benson… and been met with shrugs. “Well, that was 25 years ago… if it was important and true, Pres. Monson would be talking about it.” I don’t even know what to say to that. Perhaps he was trying to mentally justify his vote for Obama, but…
Incidentally, I just found this site today, and I LOVE it. There are WAY too few opportunities I get to hang out with other freedom loving, realizing-what-is-going-on LDS brothers/sisters. Everyone is asleep as we teeter over the abyss. Everyone seems perfectly aware of all the MORAL dangers around us, but Satan doesn’t confine himself to just that particular battlefield.
Another way to look at this situation is this: while the Saints are at liberty to shun coerced systems and embrace the social order of freedom, that is the path they must travel, but as the peaceful society and order of things gets replaced by coercive government, it becomes increasingly difficult to run from the order being forced upon us.
For instance, I attempted getting a college degree without government grants or loans, lacking parental support to do so, and working two jobs while attending school full-time, which nearly killed me, school which was overly expensive thanks to government meddling; then I began raising a family and paid dearly for private insurance so we would not use the government to pay for our babies though our poverty easily qualified us to use Medicaid, medicine which was too expensive thanks to government tweaking; I could go on and on, but eventually, we realized that the only path to any measure of living a bountiful life was to quit trying to be heroic in order to maintain poverty. After years of denying ourselves the EIC benefit on our income taxes, we finally took it and are finally making goals to get out of our extreme poverty.
There really is a trap associated with poverty, if you are not selling your soul to the welfare office, you are doing so with the pawn broker to pay for unexpected expenses, and living on less than your potential because of the urgency of living: just paying rent each month is a valiant experience. And while I have lowered my standards in order to raise my standard of living, I wish that conservatives who see the evil in socialism would have a little more heart towards those that accept those needed services. The real evil is in voting for and upholding leaders who enact such things, less so in partaking of the spoils.
You simply can’t fault the Children of Israel for not having a year’s food storage while living in Egypt, neither can you fault Latter-Day Saints for not all making the six-figure, single-earner incomes that a large, ideal LDS family now requires today in this modern world.
And while we talk of socialism, how about the socialism in giving free military defense to socialist nations so that they can spend their money on their own social services rather than in national defense, at the cost of U.S. taxpayers? Such is the case for Japan, Saudi Arabia, and much of Europe. We’ve pledged to defend them at little of their own expense so that they can have free health care and education and then snub their noses at hapless Americans who never question their nation’s military exploits in over 135 countries around the world.
Kelton, though I understand the feeling, I think the premise of needing x amount of $ is false.
Did not the Lord tell us he will provide a way to obey every commandment he gives us?
If we are accountable to our actions in relation to government in both the making and administration of law, and we are commanded not to use compulsion amongst our fellow man, then that would apply is the administration of compulsion through our agent the government.
The consequences are promised, and real. The Lord does provide a way, but His ways are not our ways.
You people think to much. Do what you have been told from the beginning, it has all been said. Those that have taken councel from early leaders like Mckay, J.Ruben Clark and Benson years ago now know where this country is headed and how to prepair. What a blessing you have been given. ” Be still and know I am God” The Lord and his prophet will never forsake those who are prepared. I know for those of you in the know this is a stretch of faith, is for me to!
I think this article is pretty much spot on.
These days the Lord needs Christians who are not tossed about by every
wind and wave of doctrine; who are not being made merchandise of; who
have discernment and are not being deceived; who need no special teacher
with some new revelation; who do not need a human shepherd to guide
their every step; who do not have to depend on someone else for their
happiness or spiritual strength —but who have been tested and tried and have proven that the very life of God is in them, providing grace and mercy to help in every need. Christ has been revealed not only to them, but in them. They are drawing on the strength of their inner man, according to the riches of His glory. -David Wilkerson
I have 2 points to make:
1) The “Samuel principle” is dangerous territory when talking to fellow members of the Church at home and meetinghouse. Every person I’ve ever spoken with has agreed wholeheartedly that such a principle has been evidenced time and again throughout history. However, if you bring up the possibility of such occurrences in today’s Church, you immediately paint a big “I’m a nutball and question current Church leadership decisions” target on your back. This happens even when you have a strong testimony of the Restored Gospel and have frequently shared it with those around you. As such, if we are to have any impact on those around us in embracing the liberty philosophy, we must be sure to emphasize the doctrinal support for liberty and let them identify the negative trend within the Church, at least partially, on their own.
2) Keith and Kelton’s opinions should not be so quickly dismissed. Several of those commenting above need to reassess what they mean by “the dole.” When contextualized, the statements made by Church leaders seem to indicate present usage means unearned income (else we would talk of “wages”) provided by the government. Keith’s point is certainly merited. Why should his money be used by the government bureaucrats to support measures he rejects? Keith, get your money back! You didn’t support their measures, so why would you let the socialists who did vote for those measures use your money? Seeking to get your money back from an entity which coerced you out of it is not living on “the dole.” It is getting your money back using the only channels you are capable of as an individual citizen. If you seek more than the money which was taken from you, you are guilty of living on “the dole.”
Sorry so long, but one last point. Kelton’s post is far more complex and illustrates how several of the above mentioned prophetic teachings are already coming to pass. I’m referring to those which indicate the welfare state imprisons people. Due to easy money provided for by the Fed, all of us suffer from the inflationary problems, especially in sectors such as education. The state is tightening up the ship and positioning itself as an even more powerful monopoly (check out the semi-hidden education finance bill which passed attached to the health reform bill recently) and seeks to force people to become increasingly subject to the whims of the state. Both you and your extended family/ward family would be financially healthier were it not for the state and would “need” government help far less, if at all. However, should other tax-payers shoulder the recompenses due to those who suffer under terrible monetary policies? There isn’t an easy answer because your suffering is real and the culprit is easily identifiable. The culprit just happens to be a sleazebag who steals from others to recompense you. I don’t think anyone should pass judgment on your decisions.
I consider myself as “being anxiously engaged in a good cause”, but I’ve learned thru the grapevine that our stake presidency considers me as “looking beyond the mark”.
A few weeks ago a stake high councilman made a couple of statements to our ward that I and apparently a few others understood to mean that we members of the Church should not concern ourselves with “conspiracy theories”. I have written him saying “That’s good advice as long as one does not apply it to specific warnings of conspiracies (a.k.a. secret combinations) given in our scriptures and by latter-day prophets and apostles.” I’m anxious to receive a reply.
Jeff said,
“Now the church website has no mention of a year supply and instead asks us to get as much as we can and to have a 72-hour kit. So we went from 7 years to 72 hours.”
This is a highly inaccurate statement.
Provident Living says this:
Where do I start?
Start by adding a few storable items that you typically eat, storing some water that is safe to drink, and saving some money, if only a few coins each week. Then over time, expand these initial efforts—as individual circumstances allow and where permitted—by storing a longer-term supply of basics such as grains, beans, and other staples.
What’s the difference between the three-month and longer-term supply items?
Three-month supply items are foods that you normally eat, including canned and commercially packaged foods. Longer-term supply items are basic food items like grains and beans that have very low moisture content (about 10% or less), can be stored for long periods of time (20–30 years), and would sustain life if nothing else were available to eat. A portion of longer-term supply items may be rotated into the three-month supply.
What about 72-hour kits?
Church members are encouraged to prepare for adversity by building a basic supply of food, water, money, and, over time, longer-term supply items. Beyond this, Church members may choose to store additional items that could be of use during times of distress.
http://providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,7636-1-4104-1,00.html
I believe that the restoration of faith , and families for freedom… demands that we recognize principles and precedence that do or would sustain such… and stand and defend liberty and law that would and does recognize the rights – and responsibilities of self governing people. Hold reps accountable to their oathes of office.. by organizing volunteer committees of oversight…
http://S-HeritageInternationalConsultingInc.com
Another recent talk that was one of the most powerful anti-socialism talks was given by Elder Dallin H. Oaks entitled “Repentance and Change” – from Oct. 2003 General Conference.
A fantastic report!
I do want to add that there will be no apostasy this time. The real tragedy is that many members will leave the church because of their disagreement with its standards.
I have a few points to fuel the discussion that are not so obvious.
The purpose of avoiding government welfare, as I understand it, was because: (1) over time, relying on welfare destroys our ability to be self reliant; and, (2) it is considered theft through government.
Consider that maybe only a few years are left to prepare for the hardships that are coming. Then consider how that affects the points above. This would make it so that: (1) if we needed to rely on welfare, there is not enough time left for it to destroy our ability to be self-reliant; and, (2) the Lord is justifying His people in obtaining that which they need to survive the next few years, even if it does mean obtaining it through theft by government (somewhat like Nephi was justified in killing Laban, especially since the destruction of the current government and the country is nearly made sure and the government will continue to steal anyway).
I know of people that need welfare, but use it wisely to build their food storage (e.g. purchasing bulk wheat at Macey’s grocery store, etc.). If time is that short, would not their actions then be justified, based on what the church handbook states?
This is a timely article. 2nd Nephi 28:14 predicts a general state of apostasy within Christianity in the last days, affecting even “many” members of the Church(humble followers of Christ). President J. Reuben Clark Jr. and President Ezra Taft Benson in particular identified the source of these apostate “precepts of men” as LDS priesthood leaders on the local, stake, and general level. “Yes, within the Church today there are tares among the wheat and wolves within the flock. As President(J. Reuben) Clark stated, ‘The RAVENING WOLVES are amongst us, from our own membership, and they, more than any others, are clothed in sheep’s clothing because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood…We should be careful of them’…(J. Reuben Clark Jr., CR, April 1949, p. 163) “The wolves amongst our flock are more numerous and devious today than when Pres. Clark made this statement…Not only are there apostates within our midst, but there are also apostate doctrines that are sometimes taught in our classes and from our pulpits and that appear in our publications. And these apostate precepts of men cause our people to stumble…”(Ezra Taft Benson, CR, April, 1969, p. 11) “What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction. Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God WHETHER they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders , did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, WHETHER their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, OR NOT.(Brigham Young, JD, Jan. 12, 1862, 9:151) “Sometimes from behind the pulpit, in our classrooms, in our COUNCIL MEETINGS, we hear, read, or witness things that do not square with the truth. This is especially true WHERE FREEDOM IS INVOLVED. Now do not let this serve as an excuse for your own wrongdoing. The Lord is letting the wheat and the tares mature before he fully purges the Church. HE IS ALSO TESTING YOU TO SEE IF YOU WILL BE MISLED. The devil is trying to deceive the very elect”.(Ezra Taft Benson, Oct. 1966, in an address to the student body at BYU) “Some lesser men have used in the past, and will use in the future, their offices unrightously. Some will, ignorantly or otherwise, use their office to PROMOTE FALSE COUNCIL; some will use it to persuade us that all is well in Zion; some will use it to COVER AND EXCUSE THEIR IGNORANCE…Let us live close to the Spirit SO WE CAN TEST ALL COUNCIL…”Ezra Taft Benson, CR, Oct. 2, 1966.
In other words, the principle of unquestioned obedience to our priesthood leaders is a false principal. The Lord will not reward us for such spiritual laziness. Keep in mind that when David O. McKay was the president of the Church, satanic socialism had become so widely accepted among LDS priesthood leaders that Pres. McKay assigned his councilor J. Reuben Clark Jr. to interview every professor at BYU as well as every member of the administrative staff, and summarily fire all those who would not renounce socialism and agree to stop teaching it. There was weeping and wailing amongst LDS socialists when this took place. Now, remember that this was about 45 years ago. Try to imagine how much worse the problem is today. Mark Benson, son of Ezra Taft Benson, told a close personal friend of mine in Salt Lake that with the death of his Father, the socialists in the Church had taken over. Considering the number of good, conservative, LDS I have known over the years, including myself, who were released from all their callings immediately after quoting President Benson on the responsibility we have to defend the Constitution, it is easy for me to believe this. It is good to know the Church is true. It is a lot better to know Jesus Christ, and be familiar with and committed to the Gospel He taught. What is the best way to do this? The greatest prophet who ever lived, even Joseph Smith, said it was to abide by the precepts in the Book of Mormon. Nuff said!
I am disturbed by Walter’s report that some Church members were released from their callings for having quoted President Benson on the responsibility we have to defend the Constitution. I have done that twice now in the past year and have received no flak from the bishop; only indirectly from a couple of members. Fact is, I have a hard time even finding opportunities to talk about freedom, the Constitution, and our “awful situation”. I wonder if those who ran afoul of their bishops had disobediently talked about freedom and the Constitution after having been told to discontinue doing so. Is anybody else aware of members being told to not talk on thes subjects in church?
The LDS church is true. The teachings are true. We have a living prophet appointed by God The Father. Follow the church’s official leadership and direction . Its that simple. Nobody said it would be an easy life.
You may have a very good point. Just please remember that the human perspective is very short sighted, but God’s perspective is Eternal. Even in the light of recent event, and the Church’s position on immigration. God is directing His Prophet, to carry out His will. If we are patient, in time, we will see the Lords Prophet justifed.
I didn’t take the time to read all of the comments above, but have a little different view of what we must do to “listen to Samuel’s voice”. We must not only stop taking the government handouts, but more importantly we must stop supporting or paying into them. We could put all of that money into our own preparedness and to Tithes and Offerings of our choosing.
The ‘coming’ apostacy? It happened along time ago. Today everyone in the Church seems to have apostatized & doesn’t believe in or live the Gospel today, except a rare few. 2 Nephi 28 & other scriptures like it, are just describing our day today, even in the Church.
We are in the last moments of time & it is rare to find anyone who is righteous or who really believes in Christ today, even in the Church.
We must be able to discern truth from error, right from wrong & devils from saints & able to see how everyone is being deceived today to support or do evil or we too will be easily deceived, yet never know it.
I want the thank the author of this article for his insight, as well as those who have commented constructively.
My husband and I have the same mind in this matter, although we are newly married and have babies on the way, we refuse to take government assistance in any form – despite the intense urging of all of our close family members. I testify that the Lord does provide a way for those who follow His counsel. We have been mocked and otherwise rejected by most of our family members over the issue, but we remain faithful to the counsel of the prophets and apostles. Has it been easy? No. Have we lived in luxury’s lap during this time? Not hardly. Have we learned the principles of thrift, self reliance and industry? Absolutely. If given the choice, would we do it again? Yes, resoundingly.
The tender mercies we have experienced during this time have acquainted us with God in ways that no other circumstance would have. I firmly believe it is in our extremity that God can and does teach us the great lessons of liberty and freedom. May we reject the false teachings of Satan, and embrace liberty in whatever our life circumstances, and bear testimony of the truth whenever possible.
I simply do not understand the palpable fear and hatred of social programs of any type that is voiced here and throughout the church by so many LDS folks in these past 30 to 40 years. Being afraid of WIC and Food Benefit programs is ludicrous. Equating charitable scocial programs and a genuine concern for the welfare of one’s fellow citizens (and human beings) with despotic “socialism” or “Communism” is paranoid and foolish. Being afraid of participating in or supporting charitable government or private assistance programs because they will lead to despotic socialism is like being afraid that a godly, wholesome, hug will ultimately lead to fornication. Nonsense. Participating in a program designed to assist those who are financially needy is not a sin and will not lead to “dependence”. The receipt of needed charity or assistance is not a “socialist gateway drug” which automatically dooms the recipient to a life of sinful dependency on others. People who need help and receive help are not “parasites” sucking away at your liberties. They are brothers and sisters -children of our Heavenly Father- who need our love and compassion. There are a few who do take advantage of any given assistance program, but they are in the small minority (and are usually caught and punished). I am stunned by the general attitude among LDS people lately (and many professed Christians in general)… and I suspect political influence over common sense and compassion at work in generating this attitude. This church, our church, led the way with charitable works, even attempting to live the law of consecration (which unfortunately the members failed to understand and failed at keeping it) and by creating a fine internal welfare program. There were many members of this church, well-known members who warned against the very same attitudes we are seeing today. The drive to get gain, the abhorrence of providing assistance to the poor and needy. The disrespect of and the disdain for our current President is one obvious sign of our current condition. Politics aside (and it should be aside, because today it has become nothing more than a hate-filled and distorted sporting event for both political parties). There is absolutely no excuse for any LDS member to do anything but pray for and ask God to bless and guide whoever might hold the Office of the President. Destroying social programs like SNAP (food benefits), Medicaid and Social Security will not result in a financial boom for anyone but the mega-wealthy. It will; however, result in terrible suffering for the poor, the elderly and the disabled. There simply are not enough private charitable resources available to handle the needs of these, our brothers and sisters (which is why these government programs were developed and launched in the first place). Believe it or not, there are political liberals and political independents in the LDS church. There are even those who ignore politics completely. (Thank God for free agency and freedom!) LDS does not automatically equate to right-wing conservative. When we enter the church and are converted, it doesn’t mean that we come up from the water a new creature in the most popular political party among the church membership. When we enter the gateway to the Kingdom, it does not mean that we must conform to any political ideologies (whether it is tolerance of immorality or whether it is greed and lack of compassion) that are patently contrary to what we know Jesus taught of charity and sharing among each other and being the keepers of our brothers and sisters. The Book of Mormon, the Bible and the writings of the Prophet Joseph Smith are full of examples. I will not quote them simply because we all have read them and know them well (I hope). I end this stating a simple fact. Freedom and charitable programs (both private and government-provided) go hand in hand. Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are not members of any political party (not Democrat or Republican). There are actually real-live Social Workers who are members of the church and know more about social programs and the overall condition of the poor and elderly than do those who rant against the very programs that sustain them or, at the least, keep them from even greater suffering. There is great danger in demonizing the poor and the elderly and/or in destroying the very things that sustain them. I do not believe that our Savior would support such actions by his children and I do not believe he is pleased by the hatred in our current extreme political debates and activities. I hope that my words will stir up thought and not contention… but if contention comes, maybe we should stop and think about why it is present at all.
A lot of name calling (fear, hatred, etc) but not a lot of facts to back any of what you said up. It is a common falsehood spread by authoritarian lovers of big government to say that the teachings against government redistribution schemes are recent in Church history. However, it is completely false. Those that lived the United Order, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, etc, spoke out against socialism and the redistribution of wealth by government and compulsive means.
We heard Brother Taylor’s exposition of what is called Socialism this morning. What can they do? Live on each other and beg. It is a poor, unwise and very imbecile people who cannot take care of themselves. (President Brigham Young, 1870, JD-14:21)
What right has any private man to take by force the property of another? The laws of all nations would punish such a man as a thief. Would thousands of men engaged in the same business make it more honorable? Certainly not. And if a nation were to do it, would a nation’s act sanctify a wrong deed? No; the Algerine pirates, or Arabian hordes, were never considered honorable, on account of their numbers; and a nation, or nations, engaging in this would only augment the banditti, but could never sanctify the deed.
I shall not, here, enter into the various manners of obtaining wealth; but would merely state, that any unjust acquisition of it ought to be punished by law. Wealth is generally the representation of labour, industry, and talent. If one man is industrious, enterprising, diligent, careful, and saves property, and his children follow in his steps, and accumulate wealth; and another man is careless, prodigal, and lazy, and his children inherit his poverty, I cannot conceive upon what principles of justice, the children of the idle and profligate have a right to put their hands into the pockets of those who are diligent and careful, and rob them of their purse. Let this principle exist, and all energy and enterprise would be crushed. (John Taylor, 1852, Government of God, P. 23)
I attended a second lecture on Socialism, by Mr. Finch; and after he got through, I made a few remarks, alluding to Sidney Rigdon and Alexander Campbell getting up a community at Kirtland, and of the big fish there eating up all the little fish. I said I did not believe the doctrine. Joseph Smith, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 6:33
It is a consistent message from the beginning of the restoration to today that government and compulsive methods of redistribution of wealth is Satanic, and hurts both the person that was stolen from as well as the recipient. It makes slaves of everyone except the masters who control who is taken from and who gets.
I called no-one names. I have experience to back the statements I made. I work with the poor, the elderly and the abused on a daily basis. I am LDS and I’m a Social Worker. I choose to serve my brothers and sisters in that way. I choose to participate in government just as I chose to serve my country in the military for 20 years of my life and I am proud to have served. I choose to pay my taxes and I choose not to agree with your assessment. I could provide all the statistics in the world to prove the value of social programs. But it would do no good as these are government statistics compiled by government employees and are therefore, automatically suspect. I suppose I should concede the debate and accept that I have made no difference… that I have lost. But… have I lost?
You can choose to rely on the statistics of man, as you admit that is what you would provide to make your point. However, I think the words of the Lord and His servants on this subject are abundantly clear. The words of the Lord and His servants always last the test of time. The reasoning of men has not been so “lucky”
How is taking government welfare a form of freedom? The hand that feeds is the hand that leads.
I was searching for Mark Benson, Ezra’s son and Mark Scousen and found this forum.
I was part of the Center for constitutional studies group that was responsible along with Ezra Taft Benson and son’s of both to get Orin Hatch elected.
I always prayed to have the next generation from those hero’s of mine along with Ronald Reagan to
actually move to “saving the constitution” when it came to be “held by a thread”.
The thread that was let go of by Orin and our Mormon boy’s with Huntsman and Romney has for years been held without any pause by congressman Ron Paul. How can a Mormon boy at one time allow for Government sponsored abortions and be a bishop at the same time. There is the Apostasy demonstrated!
Ron Paul is a hero for the cause that Ezra Taft Benson envisioned and is found in the campaign for liberty. He puts to shame literally in comparison, the moderate and neo conservative Mormon boys.
He speaks of Peace when the Mormon boys talk of killing and going to war not looking at the horror and actual history that we through our secret combination killing machine called the CIA has done.
Apostasy is evident from the inside out when the PR department of the LDS church once again is
more important than the doctrine of freedom and the writings of both Scousen, and Benson.
I also was a good friend of Cleon’s brother who wrote a book I helped self publish which was an admonishment on the members of the church to understand the first General Conference talk of Ezra Taft Benson, that the Book of Mormon was a call to action to let go of the “Great and Spacious Building” which is the institutions of man including the church, and find the true gospel in the heart and Christ within each of us, which surpasses the tree of knowledge of good and evil. President Benson very clearly warned members to find the true meaning of The Book of Mormon and be the change and step forward to demonstrate “the truth that sets us free”
If one just asks the question, “free from what”? The answer is obvious and the story is told over and over again in The Book of Mormon. The test always works as Christ spoke of that which surpasses knowledge and is the pure love of Christ. It must be found and perpetuated in order for the truth to unite and bring in the millennial era that will be. It will be a land where the constitution is the realization and order of the age as Ezra Taft Benson envisioned for our children.
The secret combination that Ezra Taft Benson warned of, is becoming self evident within the walls of the church when Corporations and Banking interests and their influence of merging the church mentality to a more moderate positioning is becoming more apparent just like seeing how Orin Hatch went from constitutionalist to moderate. Our warning unheeded that power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. Put one in the position of Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and you also put one in the position to be the focus and desire of the adversary to use them to step by step lead them and those who follow down the slippery slope of the secret combinations.
I will do all I can to support and defend the “truth that sets us free” and the constitution which protects all from the “power” warning, knowing that when that takes me outside of the blessings of the church, I will be lovingly held within the arms of Christ and the knowing of “Well done thou good and faithful servant”
What we must come to understand is that there can be no peace without righteousness. Leaders like Romney (who believes in abortion) and Huntsman (who believes in evolution) can’t possibly elevate this country spiritually any more than Obama (who believes in evolution and abortion). It’s likely that men like this are some of those whom God was speaking about when he said:
“And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.”
(Isaiah 1:15)
What’s worse, is that it’s the blood of the innocent that is being spilt. What’s even more outlandish is that it is done in the name of freedom. We might as well classify all murder under the banner of pro-choice.