10th Amendment with Teeth / Dressed Down for Speaking Out Against Aggressive Military Action Without Ever Having Served in the Military / Naive and Youthful / Put Your Trust in the Arm of God by Following His Principles / Immigration Law is Based Upon Collectivist Mindset
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I understand and agree with this land being the promised land and everyone deserves freedom as much as I do. God’s house is a house of order. There is paperwork and documentation to become a member of his church, go through the temple and be sealed to your sweetheart. It would be proper and reasonable to require it of his land also. There is no freedom lost to immigrants if they go through proper and reasonable process to come here. We can demand order, but we can not demand restrictions on others. I would like to see a balanced immigration system that would allow this.
A friend suggested I start listening to your podcasts, so I downloaded a few prior to boarding a flight across country yesterday. I wanted to knock both your heads together when I got to the Illegal Immigration episode.
I too have a spouse from another country. She came to the US after following proper protocols. She pays taxes and now speaks English better than I do.
I welcome immigrants to this country that want to provide a better life for their families. You two guys don’t sound like you think there should be a distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. That is where I believe your philosophy is wrong.
Like the poster above me mentioned, one must have paperwork to get into the temple. Jesus himself said that no one can be saved unless they are baptized by one who has authority.
30% of the US prison population is comprised of illegal aliens. With the tides of “good people” that cross the borders, we’re getting more than our share of an undesirable element.
Illegals take advantage of a system that they have never paid into. They are bankrupting hospitals & social services. Just because facts are harsh doesn’t make them less true.
Who has authority to define law? Who has authority to grant rights? That is simple blasphemy to assume that government grants rights the same as God does.
What people are saying who assert that an immigrant can be illegal is that a person must be licensed in order to physically be located somewhere. There is no natural law that defines whether an immigrant is illegal or not. That is a positivist human construct that has no basis in the “laws of nature and of nature’s God”.
A consistent solution would be to eliminate the socialist programs that “illegals” are taking advantage of. Otherwise, you are just rewarding the injustices of socialism with more injustice. Laws against immigration per se are unjust and unfounded in gospel principles for three reasons that I can think of:
1) they reject the dictum “love thy neighbor”
2) they reject the fact of inherent and inalienable rights
3) they reject the natural laws that govern economics and free markets
We do not need a piece of paper that certifies our liberty. Liberty is inherent in our existence.
Well said, Ben.
I think that illegal immigration is breaking the law… but so is speeding, or trespassing. We shouldn’t be breaking up families to punish a minor offense. Make them pay a fine, and give them a way to get legal. Maybe so many of them wouldn’t come illegally if it were easier to be legal. It takes average of 5 years to get all the paperwork! If we could make it take 5 months instead of years, I’d bet that more would do it the right way. But with all the violence in Mexico, they can’t wait that long… they’ll be kidnapped or shot while waiting on paperwork.
In Guatemala there were over 50 candidates murdered in the last election and the murder solve rate is around 2%. In a small town in Guatemala that I visited last year to see my mother in law I found the going wage to be $3 per day.
They can come here and if they make $8 per hour they can make over 21 times the wage they make there. My mother in law has applied to come to the US 3 times in a row at $300 a time (5 months wages) and been turned down every time legally. She has grandkids here in the US she has never seen. The LDS Church issues callings, temple recommends and sends undocumented people on missions. Being in the country unlawfully is a CIVIL offence just like speeding. Crossing the border if your caught is breaking the criminal code but it is only a class B misdemeanor. I don’t agree with illegal immigration but I do understand it. They are far from medical facilities, they have no hot water, they make way under the cost of living so when they come here they can send $120 home a month and that doubles what they were making when they were home. The quote of over 30% of our nations prisoners are illegals is not correct. I can quote anti-mormon lit as well but we all know how and why they do that. The figure is closer to 7% and that includes non-citizens illegal and legal. They do pay taxes, they pay gas tax, sales tax and most work with false SS# and pay FICA, in fact they paid over 9 billion last year into the mismatched funds. You say they need to go home and apply legally well for a Mexican there really is no legal line they can go get into and it would take years. Now if you have US Citizen kids like most of them do they are not going to leave them and go home separating their families. This would leave 3.7 million kids under 18 in the fostercare system and 4 million empty appartments and homes where the rent would not get paid. The issue needs to be taken care of in a reasonable way. Read 2 Nephi 1.6 and you will understand they are here for a reason. I have the web sites and quotes for my figures if anyone wants them. ALso the US Supreme court ruled last year that you will not be charged with identity theft if you were only using false documents to work.
The problem with illegal aliens in our country is multifaceted. they do not contribute a fair share to the tax base for the services they consume. Because of the illegal status of them and their families they tend to be victims of crime at a hire rate and commit crimes at a hire rate.
If they were all working in our economy on a fair footing like the rest of us then we all would be ok with them.
I personally believe in Dennis Millers Ideas on this, welcome to America sign the guest register on the way in.
I also believe that if you want to come here to enjoy our lifestyle change your attitude to assimilate and learn to live and act like Americans.
No more trying to make the US into a copy of your 3rd world home you are a refugee from.
If that place were that great you would have stayed there.
Learn our language, if I go anywhere else in the world to live or work I would be expected to learn the language of the of that place. Why should we expect less.
For more detailed info on the cost to this country of illegal immigration check out this web site.
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/
not mine but very enlightening.
Look, it is a law of the land that you must be a legally documented person to live here. Period. If you don’t like it, change the law. But until that law is changed, if a person cannot produce the proper documentation, then he/she is here illegally and should be sent back. I don’t like it but it’s the law. There are many laws I don’t like, but they are laws none the less. And until the law is changed, the borders should be protected as a matter of National Security. We don’t know WHO is coming across! Or what they bring with them. Who cares what systems they are taking advantage of, or bankrupting, or how much they are contributing or any other details. The fact is there is a law, and it should be enforced. It is so hypocritical of anyone to say otherwise. You cannot support one law without supporting another. D&C 58:21 –Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land. And Matthew 6:24 –No man can serve two masters. You can’t have it both ways. Fix the law or enforce it! And what is sickening, is the only reason politicians want amnesty is for the votes. What happened to integrity in this country? And if you want to talk about the Christ-like thing to do, and that we should let them in and give them amnesty in one way or another, then go get all the people who suffer in Africa, Asia, and Eastern Europe. IT’S THE LAW!!!!
Unfortunately you are both naive in thinking that it doesn’t matter whether people are legal or illegal to come to America. They need to be legalized. It is a slap in the face to all legal immigrants that come to this country and go through the process the right way. If you don’t like that the process takes too long then, fix it. The assimilation process is there for a reason, it is important that the people that come in and accept the Constitution, that document is the reason we are free and it is also important to learn English. How can people understand each other and respect each other if there isn’t a common language. Also in essence, if it doesn’t matter whether people are legal or illegal, then what is the point in having borders on a country? Lets just let all the people of the world flow into the U.S. and forget about a national identity. That way all our ideas and notions of freedom and liberty can be diluted away. People from other countries that are used to socialism are going to want to change things so that the government will provide everything for them. Your knowledge and foresight about socialism is also lacking related to that. Also, if the welfare system was done away with we wouldn’t have half as many illegal immigrant problems, understanding that the welfare system IS unconstitutional. Another thing is that there are terrorist factions and communist countries all with stated objectives to destroy the U.S. at any cost, hence 9-11-01. Anyways, just had to voice my opinion. I could go on for hours.