The Founding Fathers seemed pretty clear in their intentions, the sentiment hasn’t changed, what was true for them in the 1700′s is certainly true for us today.

If the Church had been restored prior to the RevWar and there had been a Twelfth Article of Faith, “good” Church members would have been Tories and fought for King George. I’m sure, however, that some would have fought for liberty, like some of the “fighting” Quakers did, in opposition to their non-violent creed.

It might be useful to note that, although canonized, Section 134 is not a revelation to Joseph Smith, nor any of his successors. It, and a statement on marriage (which was rejected apparently because it contradicted the plural marriage principles of Section 132), were written by other leading brethren in Joseph’s absence.

Regarding the example of Joseph in Egypt, he practiced a form of centralized economy and redistribution, which enriched and further empowered Egypt. When the people needed food, they had to go to the government, and everytime they went, Joseph made them pay with whatever they had left, including their land. In the end, everything in Egypt belonged to Pharaoh. I’m not sure I agree with those principles. Sure, the people lived, but they ended up as slaves to Pharaoh.

Regarding your other examples of forebearance and patience, which qualities indeed are often required, I offer the counterbalancing example of Moroni and Pahoran:

“And it came to pass that those who were desirous that Pahoran should be dethroned from the judgment-seat were called king-men, for they were desirous that the law should be altered in a manner to overthrow the free government and to establish a king over the land. … And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty.” (Alma 51:5, 17)

I have come to believe that the Church will be the last repository of constitutional principles, but those principles will be preserved within the land of Zion, while the rest of the world self-destructs. In D&C 87:6, we read:

“And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made A FULL END OF ALL NATIONS” (my emphasis).

This scripture does not except the United States of America.

In Section 45:67-71, regarding the establishment of Zion, we read:

“And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion. And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that EVERY MAN THAT WILL NOT TAKE HIS SWORD AGAINST HIS NEIGHBOR MUCH NEEDS FLEE UNTO ZION FOR SAFETY. And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and IT SHALL BE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT SHALL NOT BE AT WAR ONE WITH ANOTHER. And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand. And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy” (my emphasis).

To me, this does not sound like the Zion of today, scattered all over the world. This sounds like the Zion that will be established beginning at Independence. It seems that there might one day be another call to gather to Zion, similar to the 19th-century call to Utah. Even those among the “wicked” who refuse to engage in the violence will be accepted into Zion, where, righteous principles, including those of constitutional government, will be preserved and practiced.

As an aside, it is instructive to note that any time Israel has been united and organized, it has had armies. One of the things that might make Zion “terrible”, in addition to the Lord’s presence, might be the armies protecting her borders.

President Ezra Taft Benson, speaking as the prophet of the church, gave a talk “The Constitution – A Heavenly Banner”. In it he talked clearly about threats to the Constitution – which are internal. At the end he stated “We, the blessed beneficiaries, face difficult days in this beloved land, “a land which is choice above all other lands” (Ether 2:10). It may also cost us blood before we are through.” He was not taliking about fighting against foreign aggressors but those who would corrupt it from within.

Lastly, why do we as a church honor the signers of the Declaration of Indpendence if we don’t believe in following their examples?

“However, I disagree with the conclusion that we, as Latter-day Saints, are not justified in rebelling against the powers that be when they become tyrannical. Though I do not believe the time has come for this and right now we should diligently put our efforts towards advancing the cause of liberty in the hearts of the people, I do believe that the time may come when this should be done.”

There is a fine line we must walk to sustain the lawful government of the land. Crossing the line will cause us to lose God’s blessings upon us. Where is that line? A few statements might help clarify where it is to be found:

D&C 98:16 tells us to “renounce war and proclaim peace. Section 134:5 tells us that “all men are bound to sustain and uphold” their governments. That was just as valid for the saints who lived in the communist German Democratic Republic as it was for those who lived in the free Federal Republic of Germany. If the People’s Republic of China opened its doors to the preaching of the gospel in its borders, members of the Church in that nation would be obliged to “sustain and uphold” that government. We are not revolutionaries or counter-revolutionaries.

In Section 98:4-8, the Lord told American saints that they were justified in befriending the constitutional law of the land. Section 134, verse 5 tells us that “sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected.”

One may say that, if that protection were to cease, that we would be justified in rebellion against oppression. Verse 11 of section 134 speaks to that scenario. It says that men are “justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government from the unlawful assaults and encroachments…where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws….” The problem is that the time may come when the law will permit these encroachments. The Gadianton robbers in our government will carefully work through the law to undermine Constitutional rights.

The most clear statement I have ever heard regarding latter-day saints and the possibility of their involvement in some sort of rebellion was given by Elder Howard W. Hunter. He said:

“Citizens do not have the right to take the law into their own hands or exercise physical force. The sovereign laws of the state must be sustained, and persons living under those laws must obey them for the good of the whole. In this regard, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints takes a strong position.” (Conference Report, April 1968, p. 63)

Elder Hunter spoke for the Church in that statement. It wasn’t just his opinion.

With these things in mind, I believe that latter-day saints will never be forced to rise up against the United States government. The government may collapse under the weight of its own corruption. When that happens, we will do all we can in Zion to preserve the God-given rights of man. That’s why “all nations will flow unto” Zion. It’s why Zion will be a “light unto the Gentiles.” It will be a place of “safety and refuge.”

We need to be more ready to beat our swords into plowshares. Those who resort to force of arms will be slain by them. (Revelation 13:10) The Lord will defend the peaceful people of Zion by his power. They wicked will say, “Let us not go up to battle against Zion.” (D&C 45-66-70 and 1 Nephi 22:17)

The scriptures and the words of the prophets will guide us on the path of peace and safety toward Zion and his protection if we are faithful. I don’t believe the time will ever come that the saints of God will rise up against the United States. To intimate that we ever would potentially places the Church and its members in jeopardy.

But this is a minor point of wording. Other than that…

Well done! Thanks for being a voice of sense in the often partisan and emotive world of politics – even among LDS!

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-12813-LDS-Church-Examiner~y2009m9d16-The-Zion-party

The best way to fight a corrupt government is to starve it by withdrawing support.
LDS members should seriously consider NOT to join the military if our government continues to practice torture and pre-emptive warfare. It pained me to no end to see the Church sponsored military video after 9/11 that briefed LDS military members that we are in a death struggle with “Islam Fascism”. If LDS members do join the military, they should be encouraged to obey the oath to the Constitution over any unjust orders from their superiors to kill or torture non-combatants or prisoners.Thus we don’t have to fight evil, only ensure we are not fighting for it to win.

As far as LDS working within the government for change. I have not been impressed with Rommey, Reid, or radio talk show host Glen Beck. Instead of changing the system, they were themselves were changed by it! Ron Paul as a non-member is more of champion of the Constitution than any LDS politician I’ve see to date–Which a sad commentary on the LDS community who have taken too much of a passive role in participating in the Government as citizens.

In regard to the last post, I believe the rebellion of the Founders was justified (though it came from the people not from a small group as most subversive revolutions do).

As far as we as LDS are concerned, we need to be governed by the direction of the Lord through His servants and that direction has been – in this dispensation at least – on of turning the other cheek even when it may have been technically just to do defend ourselves.

There will, having said this, certainly be many dilemmas and tough decisions ahead for all who remain, or try to remain, faithful…

Isn’t there also something in the Book of Mormon about the preaching of the word having more effect on the minds of the people than the sword?