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	<title>Comments on: Money-Good, Not Evil</title>
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	<description>Advancing the cause of liberty in light of the restored gospel.</description>
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		<title>By: G. West</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/money-good-not-evil/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>G. West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ldsliberty.org/?p=142#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Both capitalism and socialism are telestial systems of economics and governance.  The celestial system is consecration.  The practical application of the law of consecration occurs in the united order.

All telestial systems tend toward excess.  In the mercantile capitalism of Dickens&#039; time, it exploited the poor, polluted the environment, resulted in forced child labor. Profit was stressed over morality.  It violates the principle that the (rich) idler should not eat the bread of the (poor) laborer.  (D&amp;C 42:42)

Libertarianism says that there is no inherent evil in profit from vice, such as drugs, prostitution, etc., and that government has no role in enforcing morality upon individuals.  This leads to corruption as described in Helaman 6:17 and 3 Nephi 6:12.

Under socialism/communism, human agency is restricted in the quest to suppress the exploitation of the poor, resulting in loss of freedom.  Control of private property is essential to incentive, happiness, and ultimately civil order (D&amp;C 134:2)

The Lord&#039;s way, under consecration, is that all are stewards, rich and poor.  All property is consecrated and distributed equitably according to needs and wants.  (D&amp;C 84:112, D&amp;C 104:16) This is only possible with a people who are capable of living the celestial law.  We&#039;re not quite there yet, apparently.

All telestial systems will ultimately fail from their inherent contradictions.  A long time ago, I completely dismissed the hope of reforming government and focused my efforts on preparedness and establishing Zion in my home.  There&#039;s a difference between saving the Constitution and its principles when it hangs by a thread and saving a corrupt federal government ruled by Gadianton robbers.

I sincerely believe that the Lord intends to make a full end of all nations (D&amp;C 87:6) and that the principles of the Constitution will be held inviolate by the latter-day saints in Zion.  There will be latter-day saints who will be unprepared and unworthy to enter Zion.  They will be prevented from doing so by excessive personal debt (you can&#039;t consecrate what you don&#039;t own).  They will not have been faithful in paying their tithing.  They won&#039;t have any food storage to sustain them in a time where personal independence and self-reliance are the key.  They will have to go to &quot;Egypt&quot; for bread.

I don&#039;t think we can make the case that Jesus was communistic or capitalistic.  He didn&#039;t have any interest in reforming the telestial world.  His interests were finding the elect and elevating them to the celestial.  The law of consecration is the celestial economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both capitalism and socialism are telestial systems of economics and governance.  The celestial system is consecration.  The practical application of the law of consecration occurs in the united order.</p>
<p>All telestial systems tend toward excess.  In the mercantile capitalism of Dickens&#8217; time, it exploited the poor, polluted the environment, resulted in forced child labor. Profit was stressed over morality.  It violates the principle that the (rich) idler should not eat the bread of the (poor) laborer.  (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/42/42#42" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: D&amp;C 42:42" target="_dc4242">D&amp;C 42:42</a>)</p>
<p>Libertarianism says that there is no inherent evil in profit from vice, such as drugs, prostitution, etc., and that government has no role in enforcing morality upon individuals.  This leads to corruption as described in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/hel/6/17#17" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: Helaman 6:17" target="_hel617">Helaman 6:17</a> and <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/6/12#12" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: 3 Nephi 6:12" target="_3_ne612">3 Nephi 6:12</a>.</p>
<p>Under socialism/communism, human agency is restricted in the quest to suppress the exploitation of the poor, resulting in loss of freedom.  Control of private property is essential to incentive, happiness, and ultimately civil order (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/134/2#2" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: D&amp;C 134:2" target="_dc1342">D&amp;C 134:2</a>)</p>
<p>The Lord&#8217;s way, under consecration, is that all are stewards, rich and poor.  All property is consecrated and distributed equitably according to needs and wants.  (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/84/112#112" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: D&amp;C 84:112" target="_dc84112">D&amp;C 84:112</a>, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/104/16#16" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: D&amp;C 104:16" target="_dc10416">D&amp;C 104:16</a>) This is only possible with a people who are capable of living the celestial law.  We&#8217;re not quite there yet, apparently.</p>
<p>All telestial systems will ultimately fail from their inherent contradictions.  A long time ago, I completely dismissed the hope of reforming government and focused my efforts on preparedness and establishing Zion in my home.  There&#8217;s a difference between saving the Constitution and its principles when it hangs by a thread and saving a corrupt federal government ruled by Gadianton robbers.</p>
<p>I sincerely believe that the Lord intends to make a full end of all nations (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/87/6#6" title="LDS Scriptures Internet Edition: D&amp;C 87:6" target="_dc876">D&amp;C 87:6</a>) and that the principles of the Constitution will be held inviolate by the latter-day saints in Zion.  There will be latter-day saints who will be unprepared and unworthy to enter Zion.  They will be prevented from doing so by excessive personal debt (you can&#8217;t consecrate what you don&#8217;t own).  They will not have been faithful in paying their tithing.  They won&#8217;t have any food storage to sustain them in a time where personal independence and self-reliance are the key.  They will have to go to &#8220;Egypt&#8221; for bread.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we can make the case that Jesus was communistic or capitalistic.  He didn&#8217;t have any interest in reforming the telestial world.  His interests were finding the elect and elevating them to the celestial.  The law of consecration is the celestial economy.</p>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/money-good-not-evil/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ldsliberty.org/?p=142#comment-37</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s why I prefer not to use the word capitalist and socialist... Words that people already have definitions for tend to get in the way of teaching principles. &quot;capitalism&quot; is a really misunderstood, tainted word that was invented by socialists if I remember correctly.  There&#039;s nothing about the word itself that teaches any principles.  At least &quot;Libertarian&quot; is based on &quot;Liberty&quot; and hence has substance.  What is &quot;capital&quot; in a moral sense?  I say jettison the word.  The &#039;ism&#039; of &#039;capital &#039;is defined who is explaining it to someone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s why I prefer not to use the word capitalist and socialist&#8230; Words that people already have definitions for tend to get in the way of teaching principles. &#8220;capitalism&#8221; is a really misunderstood, tainted word that was invented by socialists if I remember correctly.  There&#8217;s nothing about the word itself that teaches any principles.  At least &#8220;Libertarian&#8221; is based on &#8220;Liberty&#8221; and hence has substance.  What is &#8220;capital&#8221; in a moral sense?  I say jettison the word.  The &#8216;ism&#8217; of &#8216;capital &#8216;is defined who is explaining it to someone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Darren Andrews</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/money-good-not-evil/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren Andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ldsliberty.org/?p=142#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Dflandro,

Modern-day prophets have spoken out against socialism on many occasions, and have supported capitalism.

Private capitalism, the free market, is founded on liberty, the right to contract about our own affairs without threat of force, the right to make choices, and the right to own and control property - a right held in high esteem by the Founders of the U.S., by prophets and made mention of in the scriptures. Yes, these things are sacred. What is our agency without the means to exercise it in the physical world? How we will be stewards when there is no ownership and no control? Where there is no free interaction between us?

If you click on my link you will see a site that endeavours to list all the words of Church leaders on political/economic matters should you wish to study this further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dflandro,</p>
<p>Modern-day prophets have spoken out against socialism on many occasions, and have supported capitalism.</p>
<p>Private capitalism, the free market, is founded on liberty, the right to contract about our own affairs without threat of force, the right to make choices, and the right to own and control property &#8211; a right held in high esteem by the Founders of the U.S., by prophets and made mention of in the scriptures. Yes, these things are sacred. What is our agency without the means to exercise it in the physical world? How we will be stewards when there is no ownership and no control? Where there is no free interaction between us?</p>
<p>If you click on my link you will see a site that endeavours to list all the words of Church leaders on political/economic matters should you wish to study this further.</p>
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		<title>By: Skyler Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/money-good-not-evil/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Skyler Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ldsliberty.org/?p=142#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Christ was a socialist, meaning, of course, he believed wealth should be re-distributed by force? Geez, if he believed that, he very easily could have made it happen, don&#039;t you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christ was a socialist, meaning, of course, he believed wealth should be re-distributed by force? Geez, if he believed that, he very easily could have made it happen, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Dflandro</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/money-good-not-evil/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Dflandro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ldsliberty.org/?p=142#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Interesting theory.  Your carefully crafted argument assumes that capitalism is somehow sacred.  Do you have any scriptural proof for that?  In my readings of the New Testament, Christ is a socialist, not a capitalist.  We are duty bound to protect free agency and democracy, but not capitalism.

I believe that corrupt governments can do a lot of evil.  I did something about it.  I elected Barak Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting theory.  Your carefully crafted argument assumes that capitalism is somehow sacred.  Do you have any scriptural proof for that?  In my readings of the New Testament, Christ is a socialist, not a capitalist.  We are duty bound to protect free agency and democracy, but not capitalism.</p>
<p>I believe that corrupt governments can do a lot of evil.  I did something about it.  I elected Barak Obama.</p>
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