Johnny has NOT made his case. What he has attempted does not hold water. Saying that someone has the right to IP through contract is like saying that someone can secure their “right” to healthcare by saving money and shopping for the best prices. Albiet the means are righteous, they do not establish the premise which is that there is a right to healthcare. Likewise, voluntary contract is great and moral, but it does not show how an idea can be property.
Thr truth is this: “IP” or knowledge of truthful and useful principles is not a fruit of labor. It is a fruit of faith. No labor is required. When one prays or merely asks himself a question, he is showing faith that the answer can be had. Heavenly Father who knows all things reveals the information to whom he sees fit according to His desires. As many people as want to partake of this truth can, at the creator’s discretion.

No amount of twisting facts and logic can take something that has none of the characteristics of something that can be owned and turn it into such by simply saying that it is.

The concept of “IP” is an invention of man and I’m ashamed that this article is published at ldsliberty.org where eternal principles should be championed over the vain imaginations of men.

He says that Mitt Romney has a unique perspective because he was a governor. Well, so was Clinton, and he wasn’t for state’s rights.

Regardless, Romney is more interested in being elected than in being upfront honest. That bothers me. And his views toward central banks and the Fed are so far from the Constitution that it shows he doesn’t agree with the founding father. His apologist, Greg, never addressed Ron Paul’s plan for an alternative currency. He needs to watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNtIsSWVJBI He just went on and on about an overnight replacement to the gold standard.
Okay, on this subject he was rather condescending. He’s a financial planner with strong roots in the Keynesian system, and as such, he loves fractional banking. For him to think most Paulians are financially ignorant, just shows how far from reality he is. Apparently he thinks Hayek and Von Mises were ignorant as well.

Everything else stems from the premise that ideas and patterns are property but since this premise is faulty frankly none of the rest matters.

I personally have studied this subject out, pondered, and prayed about it and I feel completely confident in my conclusion.

No one has stated they will only use common sense. Common sense and logic however is a great starting point to truth.

When Peter was fishing on his boat and had been all night the Lord told him to cast his net over the other side. This made no sense (No common sense, logic or reason) to Peter, a professional fishermen, however, he/they did it because the Lord asked them to do it and they ended up with more fish than they could bring aboard.

So when you try to decide the right side of the IP debate don’t just use common sense. Think about if you were the author of the work and your rights as the creator of the work. Then take the issue to the Lord through prayer and rely on the Holy Ghost trying to get personal prejudices out of the way. This is the way we can all be lead to the truth.

I am old enough to have seen what has been happening to our country for over fifty years. The problems we are having did not just happen with the last two presidents, they have been going on and getting increasingly worse for more than 50 years. Those who think otherwise are very naive. The president who happens to be in office at any particular time is not to blame for all that is happening he inherited many the problems, but the general population (many of whom do not even vote) blames him and his party for all the bad things that are going on.

None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free.
Taking excerpts from the same book by H Verlan Andersen I will give you my opinion of what destroyed the Nephite Nation.
What caused the destruction of the Nephite Nation? The Nephites lived under a monarchy for about five hundred years before the Lord gave them the privilege of self-rule. What took place after they were given a government of self-rule? The Gadianton Robbers became involved in the government. Things such as murder, rape, high taxation, plunder, all manner of corruption took place by the government. What was the response of the citizens? Although individually they would not commit these atrocities, they willingly subscribed to government committing the atrocities. Since government gets its rights from the people, government has no more power than the individual. The problem was that they were the ones who kept voting into office those who were perpetrating these crimes. The question is, to what extent are we going to be held accountable for the crimes our government leaders are committing. I don’t know. I believe we will have to shoulder some responsibility. Which makes how we vote very important. An example of the importance of how we vote can be found in Helaman 6:38.
Are we headed down the same path? Our Savior told us.

77 According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles;
78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.
79 Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another.
80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood. Doctrine and Covenants | Section 101:77 – 80

I believe the following statement validates the word Established

President Brigham Young has stated that “our Savior dictated the Constitution to the Framers also, they were not aware it was being dictated to them.” The dedicatory Prayer for the Kirtland Temple was dictated to Joseph Smith Jr. and in it our Savior stated that “the Constitution would be with us forever.” Is the Constitution complete and perfect, I don’t think so. This may be the reason why Article V is in the Constitution. I don’t know if the Framers knew or understood why this article was put into the Constitution. I believe that when we go into the Millennium there will need to be things added and things removed from the Constitution and our Savior needed a way to accomplish this. I believe that it is well within the realm of possibility that the complete and perfect Constitution is the form of government in the Celestial Kingdom.

President Benson has stated that he treats the Constitution as Gospel, Not Cannon. I agree with him. This would give the Constitution a whole new meaning. How would we treat Article lV Section 4 . First it states, “each State will be guaranteed a Republic form of government and, we are to defend ourselves against invasion. We now have a commandment on the form of government we will have, and a commanded on when we can go to war, to defend ourselves if we are invaded. These means we are not to have a Democratic form of government and we are not to invade, attack, war on another Nation. We are not to be the aggressor. We are not going to war on another Nation because we think that they may have weapons of mass destruction and hate us. We are to mind our own business. We are to set the example. Another point. A Republic protects our Agency and Freedom and a Democracy does the exact opposite. Article l Section 8 clause 5 our Savior has commanded Congress to, “coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures.” This eliminates the Federal Reserve. Article ll Section l clause 3 deals with how our President and Vice President will be elected. This is a long article so I won’t type it out. Get a copy of the Constitution and read how our Savior commanded us to elect a President and Vice President. To get a copy of the Constitution use google. Also find out how our Savior commanded us to elect our US Senators. I believe Rome started out as a Republic. They were prosperous and happy. What destroyed Rome was a change of government. We seem to have not learned from history.

The Oath of Office is a Covenant between the person taking the Oath and God. The only Presidential Candidate who understands this and Honors the Oath is Ron Paul. He has done this for all the years he has been a congressman. Honoring the Oath leads to studying the Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, studying the Intent, the Framers. I doubt that those who don’t honor the oath but instead turn to the communist UN have studied the UN charter. The UN says jump and they say how high. They are no more than puppets. The have become sheep which reminds me of a some sheep who jumped off a cliff.

As to living the Gospel I am still in Primary however I hope it is never said of me that I have not battled to restore Choices we have lost, Agency, and, Freedoms lost.

I want to leave you with a couple of Ron Paul links http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j2iLWxc-pWM

http://www.ronpaul.com/

Also a thought about how important your vote is.

4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil. Doctrine and Covenants | Section 98:4 – 7

There are many things which multiple prophets have taught, but that doesn’t make them true (as later prophets rejected those same teachings). Just one small example, like the Lamanites being the predominant ancestors of modern Native Americans. There are many others, some carrying more weight than others.

Like I said before, you have given a good argument for IP, Kevin, also, has given good points against IP. I’ll have to do some more research on the topic some time.

1. President Benson’s definition of property was given multiple times (in a book he wrote, in a talk he gave in a church setting, in a talk he gave to a freedom group)
2. The latest Gospel Principles book states that violation of copyrights is a form of theft.
3. Elder Bednar’s quote about unauthorized distribution of music and movies.
4. The copyright symbol the Church puts on every Book of Mormon and Triple Combination it distributes.
5. The Church’s position on copyrighted materials as stated in Section 21.1.12 (Copyrighted Materials) in “Handbook 2: Administering in the Church”. This is the official Church handbook given to Bishoprics which came out only a few years ago. You can read it here: http://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/selected-church-policies?lang=eng#21.1.12

This, my friends, is a PATTERN in support of IP.

To say that contracts can only be made which involve physical property and transfer of ownership is to say there are limits to the free market. Saying this indicates you don’t understand contract law and what a free market system is. What about a rental car contract? The car owner does not transfer ownership, he is only offering his property under limited terms. What about an employer-employee contract? The employee is not transferring ownership of his body, he is merely offering limited use of his labor in exchange for money. How is this much different than offering limited use of an idea in exchange for money?

It’s a sad state of affairs when a member ever questions anything that ever comes out of a prophets mouth and they are met with harsh reprimanded and warnings about rebelling against God.

Too many members ignore warning after warning in the scripture to refrain from putting there trust in man or the arm of the flesh.

I suppose it is because I don’t believe the prophets to be infallible. I also believe in reason and logic and that God’s laws necessarily flow from logic because he is a God of logic and reason. So, if something contradicts with what a prophet says and logic then I must wrestle with what the truth is and then ask God. So right now I am wrestling. It is folly and contradictory to gospel principles to blindly follow man whether that man be a prophet or not. If you just put your trust in the arm of flesh then one reaps damnation, it is God who we should put our trust in.

I believe Benson was really good at what he taught and that he taught many truths but I don’t believe he knew it perfectly, neither do I believe that I know it perfectly either. The constitution is a great document, but it is folly to believe it is perfect either and that it represents the ideal government. If we say that the constitution holds a monopoly of truth then we say that God gives no more revelations and there is no more truth to be had and we become like those of the past that would refuse to believe that there is any truth beyond the bible, you can say the same of the prophets really. When they say something one should listen and then seek for the truth in their own lives to know if it is truth, otherwise we deny agency and liberty.

“And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.”
(Isaiah 1:15)

What’s worse, is that it’s the blood of the innocent that is being spilt. What’s even more outlandish is that it is done in the name of freedom. We might as well classify all murder under the banner of pro-choice.

Your quote “there must be a transfer of property title for a contract to exist”.
-What if I contract with my company that I can use a company car in exchange for my labor? They are not transferring ownership of the car to me, and I am not transferirng ownership of my body.

“Most Americans have a basic understanding that it is wrong to copy movies, music, software, without the permission of the author/inventor.”
- Popularity does not make it right. At one time most Americans had a “basic understanding” that slavery was not wrong.

“If farmer B doesn’t understand the agreement of the patent, he should ask Farmer A to clarify before he takes action which indicates he agrees to the contract (such as trespassing and tampering)”
- Trespassing and tampering isn’t consenting to an unknown contract of unknown terms.

What is your definition of property? Please back it up with prophetic support.

“Applying this same logic to copyrights, the software copyright owner can reclaim damages from you if you are found in possession of it illegally. ”
- This confusion results from yet again treating patterns as physical material which are fundamentally different. Yes the car owner can reposses his car because it’s a scarce, rivalrous, resource but what can the software aurthor reposses? He’s not missing his software so he cannot “take it back”. It was never removed from his possession and use to begin with.

“In IP violation, what the owner has lost (and has a right to reclaim damages for) is his right to contract–for you have assisted in breach of a contract.”
- It cannot be a contract if there is no implicit theft as a result of the breach nor can it be a contract if the “IP” is not property to begin with. You have yet to establish that patterns are property anyway so there is no contract; at most it’s an assisted broken promise.