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	<title>Comments on: A Warning From Our Past</title>
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	<description>Advancing the cause of liberty in light of the restored gospel.</description>
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		<title>By: PAJ</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/a-warning-from-our-past/#comment-363</link>
		<dc:creator>PAJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 16:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldsfreemen.com/?p=1867#comment-363</guid>
		<description>Greetings,

For those of you who have studied the works of Dave Talbott and the Electric Universe, as well as the great research, books, and newsletters provided by Anthony E. Larson will understand the following:

1) The Grand Sign described by Joseph Smith
2) The planetary events leading up to the appearance of the Grand Sign
3) The Desolation of Abomination that will virtually destroy this planet and almost all life

Once you have this viewpoint, it is plain as the nose on your face that virtually everything we have learned in Church is either untrue or based in symbolism. The story of the second coming is all about the reestablishment of the original Polar Configuration (PC) of Planets and the unbelievable destruction that series of events entails. The building of the temple is a symbolic representation of the establishment of the PC. There will not be any places of safety. Survivors will be few and they will merely be lucky. Maybe they will not be so lucky in light of the hardships they will face.

At any rate, I suspect the time will come when the LDS church, in order to avoid persecution, will have yet another revelation and Gay Marriage will be confirmed. And if there is time enough, the differences between the LDS Church and modern Christianity will be too small to notice. What a sad outcome for a church that was restored by the hand of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings,</p>
<p>For those of you who have studied the works of Dave Talbott and the Electric Universe, as well as the great research, books, and newsletters provided by Anthony E. Larson will understand the following:</p>
<p>1) The Grand Sign described by Joseph Smith<br />
2) The planetary events leading up to the appearance of the Grand Sign<br />
3) The Desolation of Abomination that will virtually destroy this planet and almost all life</p>
<p>Once you have this viewpoint, it is plain as the nose on your face that virtually everything we have learned in Church is either untrue or based in symbolism. The story of the second coming is all about the reestablishment of the original Polar Configuration (PC) of Planets and the unbelievable destruction that series of events entails. The building of the temple is a symbolic representation of the establishment of the PC. There will not be any places of safety. Survivors will be few and they will merely be lucky. Maybe they will not be so lucky in light of the hardships they will face.</p>
<p>At any rate, I suspect the time will come when the LDS church, in order to avoid persecution, will have yet another revelation and Gay Marriage will be confirmed. And if there is time enough, the differences between the LDS Church and modern Christianity will be too small to notice. What a sad outcome for a church that was restored by the hand of God.</p>
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		<title>By: b roche</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/a-warning-from-our-past/#comment-362</link>
		<dc:creator>b roche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 06:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldsfreemen.com/?p=1867#comment-362</guid>
		<description>What an insightful take on modern political drama.  I have had thoughts myself along this vein, but with one important deviation.  You left out the part about Zion.  In the last days, we are told that Zion will be built upon the American continent, and that is where the Saints will find safety.  This too, parallels the early period of the Church.  But in these final days, prophecy says it will work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an insightful take on modern political drama.  I have had thoughts myself along this vein, but with one important deviation.  You left out the part about Zion.  In the last days, we are told that Zion will be built upon the American continent, and that is where the Saints will find safety.  This too, parallels the early period of the Church.  But in these final days, prophecy says it will work.</p>
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		<title>By: G. West</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/a-warning-from-our-past/#comment-361</link>
		<dc:creator>G. West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldsfreemen.com/?p=1867#comment-361</guid>
		<description>Allow me to offer a rebuttal to Mark&#039;s statements 1 and 2 above.  On the website of the Society for the Prevention of anti-Mormonism, we have the photos of the the gates of the L.A. temple that was spray painted with grafitti by anti-Prop 8 protestors.  That may not be the temple itself, but it was the defacing of property on the temple grounds.

Not only were church members &quot;accosted&quot; but they were the targets of organized attempts to terrorize and intimidate them as well as non-Mormons who stood up for the traditional family..  According the an article at http://www.startribune.com/local/81782082.html?page=2&amp;c=y, columnist Katharine Kersten wrote:

&quot;Activists also targeted religious institutions, reserving special venom for Mormons. After Prop 8&#039;s passage, at least 17 Mormon houses of worship were defaced, and a suspicious white powder was mailed to two others. At one temple, the Book of Mormon was torched on the doorstep.

&quot;Gay-marriage activists made skillful use of public data to harass citizens who donated to the &quot;Yes on 8&quot; campaign. One website, &quot;eightmaps.com,&quot; displayed a map that enabled activists to pinpoint the identity, employer, donation size and location of certain Prop 8 supporters. Another site, sponsored by a group called Californians Against Hate, revealed some Prop 8 donors&#039; addresses and telephone numbers. The San Francisco Chronicle and Los Angeles Times also posted search engines that facilitated targeting of this kind.

&quot;Not surprisingly, many Prop 8 supporters were bombarded with harassing calls and e-mails. Some lost their jobs, including Scott Eckern, artistic director of the California Musical Theatre in Sacramento, and Richard Raddon, president of the Los Angeles Film Festival. Both resigned after their private donations were publicized and activists threatened to boycott their organizations. Dozens of businesses -- including hotels, insurance agencies, accounting firms and dentist offices -- were similarly targeted because of their owners&#039; or employees&#039; private donations.

&quot;Even ordinary folks had reason to fear. After Prop 8 passed, gay activists mobbed El Coyote, a restaurant in Los Angeles, calling for a boycott because the owner&#039;s daughter, Margorie Christoffersen, had donated $100 in support of the measure. Shouting &quot;shame on you,&quot; they hurled vulgarities at diners. Though Christofferson apologized, &quot;boisterous street protests erupted&quot; after she refused to renounce her stance, according to the Wall Street Journal. Christoffersen took a leave of absence.

It has become apparent to us at the S.P.A.M. web site that anti-Mormons are just as vicious on the liberal left as they are on the sectarian right.  It&#039;s one of the reasons I repeatedly urge latter-day saints to question the wisdom of fervent devotion to any political party.  I agree with the author&#039;s premise that, the Church will likely suffer from contention and political divisions.  We&#039;ll see liberal saints drop out because they feel that we&#039;re not being kind and tolerant enough of gays.  Conservatives will drop out, complaining that President Monson and the general authorities are not giving enough attention to the &quot;new world order&quot; and the undermining of the Constitution.  Both groups are trying to &quot;steady the ark.&quot;  I see no sense putting the noose in the hand of either party to put around our necks.  Satan is playing both sides against us.

A latter-day saint will get equally &quot;beat up&quot; on Free Republic or the Democratic Underground.  In Nauvoo, Joseph took the LDS vote off the table by running for office himself.  It preserved Church unity at a critical time.  Like the author, I see the confrontation coming and there are many resemblances to Nauvoo&#039;s situation.  Then, as now, anyone who puts any secular cause before the sustaining of the kingdom of God puts himself in spiritual jeopardy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allow me to offer a rebuttal to Mark&#8217;s statements 1 and 2 above.  On the website of the Society for the Prevention of anti-Mormonism, we have the photos of the the gates of the L.A. temple that was spray painted with grafitti by anti-Prop 8 protestors.  That may not be the temple itself, but it was the defacing of property on the temple grounds.</p>
<p>Not only were church members &#8220;accosted&#8221; but they were the targets of organized attempts to terrorize and intimidate them as well as non-Mormons who stood up for the traditional family..  According the an article at <a href="http://www.startribune.com/local/81782082.html?page=2&#038;c=y" rel="nofollow">http://www.startribune.com/local/81782082.html?page=2&#038;c=y</a>, columnist Katharine Kersten wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Activists also targeted religious institutions, reserving special venom for Mormons. After Prop 8&#8242;s passage, at least 17 Mormon houses of worship were defaced, and a suspicious white powder was mailed to two others. At one temple, the Book of Mormon was torched on the doorstep.</p>
<p>&#8220;Gay-marriage activists made skillful use of public data to harass citizens who donated to the &#8220;Yes on 8&#8243; campaign. One website, &#8220;eightmaps.com,&#8221; displayed a map that enabled activists to pinpoint the identity, employer, donation size and location of certain Prop 8 supporters. Another site, sponsored by a group called Californians Against Hate, revealed some Prop 8 donors&#8217; addresses and telephone numbers. The San Francisco Chronicle and Los Angeles Times also posted search engines that facilitated targeting of this kind.</p>
<p>&#8220;Not surprisingly, many Prop 8 supporters were bombarded with harassing calls and e-mails. Some lost their jobs, including Scott Eckern, artistic director of the California Musical Theatre in Sacramento, and Richard Raddon, president of the Los Angeles Film Festival. Both resigned after their private donations were publicized and activists threatened to boycott their organizations. Dozens of businesses &#8212; including hotels, insurance agencies, accounting firms and dentist offices &#8212; were similarly targeted because of their owners&#8217; or employees&#8217; private donations.</p>
<p>&#8220;Even ordinary folks had reason to fear. After Prop 8 passed, gay activists mobbed El Coyote, a restaurant in Los Angeles, calling for a boycott because the owner&#8217;s daughter, Margorie Christoffersen, had donated $100 in support of the measure. Shouting &#8220;shame on you,&#8221; they hurled vulgarities at diners. Though Christofferson apologized, &#8220;boisterous street protests erupted&#8221; after she refused to renounce her stance, according to the Wall Street Journal. Christoffersen took a leave of absence.</p>
<p>It has become apparent to us at the S.P.A.M. web site that anti-Mormons are just as vicious on the liberal left as they are on the sectarian right.  It&#8217;s one of the reasons I repeatedly urge latter-day saints to question the wisdom of fervent devotion to any political party.  I agree with the author&#8217;s premise that, the Church will likely suffer from contention and political divisions.  We&#8217;ll see liberal saints drop out because they feel that we&#8217;re not being kind and tolerant enough of gays.  Conservatives will drop out, complaining that President Monson and the general authorities are not giving enough attention to the &#8220;new world order&#8221; and the undermining of the Constitution.  Both groups are trying to &#8220;steady the ark.&#8221;  I see no sense putting the noose in the hand of either party to put around our necks.  Satan is playing both sides against us.</p>
<p>A latter-day saint will get equally &#8220;beat up&#8221; on Free Republic or the Democratic Underground.  In Nauvoo, Joseph took the LDS vote off the table by running for office himself.  It preserved Church unity at a critical time.  Like the author, I see the confrontation coming and there are many resemblances to Nauvoo&#8217;s situation.  Then, as now, anyone who puts any secular cause before the sustaining of the kingdom of God puts himself in spiritual jeopardy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/a-warning-from-our-past/#comment-360</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldsfreemen.com/?p=1867#comment-360</guid>
		<description>This is just another example of taking a slippery slope idea way too far. Just like the church doesn&#039;t want to imprison gay individuals and send them off to concentration camps, neither does &quot;the gay community&quot; want to force the church to recognize gay marriage, or change their doctrine. The whole slippery slope thing can go both ways, and neither side gains anything by continually playing off of it. Also, a few inaccuracies in the above:

1. No temples were &quot;defaced&quot; in the aftermath of proposition 8. Yes, there were peaceful protests at a few, but no vandalism occurred.
2. No church members were &quot;accosted&quot; as a result of proposition 8 either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is just another example of taking a slippery slope idea way too far. Just like the church doesn&#8217;t want to imprison gay individuals and send them off to concentration camps, neither does &#8220;the gay community&#8221; want to force the church to recognize gay marriage, or change their doctrine. The whole slippery slope thing can go both ways, and neither side gains anything by continually playing off of it. Also, a few inaccuracies in the above:</p>
<p>1. No temples were &#8220;defaced&#8221; in the aftermath of proposition 8. Yes, there were peaceful protests at a few, but no vandalism occurred.<br />
2. No church members were &#8220;accosted&#8221; as a result of proposition 8 either.</p>
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		<title>By: Skyler Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.ldsliberty.org/a-warning-from-our-past/#comment-359</link>
		<dc:creator>Skyler Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldsfreemen.com/?p=1867#comment-359</guid>
		<description>I think this an important warning but it&#039;s hard for me to see the current struggle having a similar result. The Church is much bigger and more powerful than it was then. You know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this an important warning but it&#8217;s hard for me to see the current struggle having a similar result. The Church is much bigger and more powerful than it was then. You know?</p>
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